Topic: Porcupinish stuff

6 scales

Thread (21 messages)

From: genewardsmith (2012-01-12)
Subject: Porcupinish stuff

I've not concocted anything I'm very happy with starting from Porcupine[15] and lesfipping. I get stuff like this:

! pork15.scl
!
Porupine-related lesfip scale
 15
!
 90.75957
 162.69064
 256.58844
 318.16312
 423.99014
 479.55828
 585.38530
 646.95998
 740.85778
 812.78885
 903.54842
 971.39229
 1051.77421
 1132.15613
 1200.00000

From: Chris Vaisvil (2012-01-12)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Porcupinish stuff

Are you saying it is not worth trying?

On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 4:47 AM, genewardsmith
<genewardsmith@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> I've not concocted anything I'm very happy with starting from
> Porcupine[15] and lesfipping. I get stuff like this:
>
> ! pork15.scl
> !
> Porupine-related lesfip scale
> 15
> !
> 90.75957
> 162.69064
> 256.58844
> 318.16312
> 423.99014
> 479.55828
> 585.38530
> 646.95998
> 740.85778
> 812.78885
> 903.54842
> 971.39229
> 1051.77421
> 1132.15613
> 1200.00000
>
>  
>

From: genewardsmith (2012-01-12)
Subject: Re: Porcupinish stuff

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> Are you saying it is not worth trying?

It would be fine, I think.

From: Keenan Pepper (2012-01-12)
Subject: Re: Porcupinish stuff

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@...> wrote:
>
> I've not concocted anything I'm very happy with starting from Porcupine[15] and lesfipping. I get stuff like this:

Are both 12/11 and 10/9 in your set of target consonances?

Is your acceptable error, e, less than 15 cents? (Knowing you, I'm sure it is.)

If so, then you could be judging each porcupine generator based on how close to 12/11 it is, or how close to 10/9 it is, but never both. But in porcupine, each generator is supposed to function as 12/11, 11/10, and 10/9, all at the same time. If some of them are being pulled toward 12/11 and some toward 10/9, then no wonder the chain is destabilizing into some really big generators and some small ones.

I'm wondering if your optimization process would leave alone a non-circulating chain of POTE porcupine generators, or whether it would make them unequal...

Keenan

From: genewardsmith (2012-01-12)
Subject: Re: Porcupinish stuff

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Keenan Pepper" <keenanpepper@...> wrote:

> I'm wondering if your optimization process would leave alone a non-circulating chain of POTE porcupine generators, or whether it would make them unequal...

It never completely leaves a MOS alone, but sometimes it doesn't mess with it much.

From: genewardsmith (2012-01-12)
Subject: Re: Porcupinish stuff

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Keenan Pepper" <keenanpepper@> wrote:
> 
> > I'm wondering if your optimization process would leave alone a non-circulating chain of POTE porcupine generators, or whether it would make them unequal...
> 
> It never completely leaves a MOS alone, but sometimes it doesn't mess with it much.

! porcupine15fip.scl
!
Lesfip version of Porcupine[15], 11-limit diamond target, 15 cent tolerance
 15
!
 100.98886
 162.45590
 262.89824
 325.04535
 387.19246
 487.63480
 549.10184
 650.09070
 711.24951
 812.69999
 875.28995
 974.80075
 1037.39071
 1138.84119
 1200.00000

From: Chris Vaisvil (2012-01-12)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Porcupinish stuff

got it

On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 1:32 PM, genewardsmith
<genewardsmith@sbcglobal.net>wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In tuning@...m, "Keenan Pepper" <keenanpepper@> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm wondering if your optimization process would leave alone a
> non-circulating chain of POTE porcupine generators, or whether it would
> make them unequal...
> >
> > It never completely leaves a MOS alone, but sometimes it doesn't mess
> with it much.
>
> ! porcupine15fip.scl
> !
> Lesfip version of Porcupine[15], 11-limit diamond target, 15 cent tolerance
> 15
> !
> 100.98886
> 162.45590
> 262.89824
> 325.04535
> 387.19246
> 487.63480
> 549.10184
> 650.09070
> 711.24951
> 812.69999
> 875.28995
> 974.80075
> 1037.39071
> 1138.84119
> 1200.00000
>
>  
>

From: Chris Vaisvil (2012-01-12)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Porcupinish stuff

got it

On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 4:47 AM, genewardsmith
<genewardsmith@sbcglobal.net>wrote:

> **
>
>
> I've not concocted anything I'm very happy with starting from
> Porcupine[15] and lesfipping. I get stuff like this:
>
> ! pork15.scl
> !
> Porupine-related lesfip scale
> 15
> !
> 90.75957
> 162.69064
> 256.58844
> 318.16312
> 423.99014
> 479.55828
> 585.38530
> 646.95998
> 740.85778
> 812.78885
> 903.54842
> 971.39229
> 1051.77421
> 1132.15613
> 1200.00000
>
>  
>

From: genewardsmith (2012-01-12)
Subject: Re: Porcupinish stuff

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> got it

That one's just porcupine. This one is more interesting, and might be a good one to try:


! valenporc15.scl
!
Valentine-porcupine circulating strictly proper 15-note lesfip scale, 11 limit diamond target, 13.8 to 15.5 cent tolerance
! approximately 555556655555555 in 77edo
 15
!
 79.99698
 158.13771
 233.53897
 314.10167
 389.50293
 467.64365
 547.64064
 623.18179
 701.41713
 780.49908
 873.82032
 967.14156
 1046.22350
 1124.45885
 1200.00000

From: Mike Battaglia (2012-01-13)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Porcupinish stuff

On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 1:32 PM, genewardsmith
<genewardsmith@...> wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@...> wrote:
> >
> > It never completely leaves a MOS alone, but sometimes it doesn't mess with it much.
>
> ! porcupine15fip.scl
> !
> Lesfip version of Porcupine[15], 11-limit diamond target, 15 cent tolerance
> 15
> !
> 100.98886
> 162.45590
> 262.89824
> 325.04535
> 387.19246
> 487.63480
> 549.10184
> 650.09070
> 711.24951
> 812.69999
> 875.28995
> 974.80075
> 1037.39071
> 1138.84119
> 1200.00000

Whoa, this is pretty good! If anything, I'd say even well-temper it
more, as those wolf 3/2's are about 752 cents each. It'd be
interesting to see if we could get them into father range or so, like
13-EDO's 738 cent 3/2.

What did you use as a basis for porcupine, the POTE generator? What if
you run it again, but use a generator that's something between POTE
and 15-EDO? The arithmetic mean of the 160 cent 15-EDO generator and
the POTE 163.950 generator is 161.975, and so maybe that'd do the
trick.

-Mike

From: genewardsmith (2012-01-13)
Subject: Re: Porcupinish stuff

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:

> Whoa, this is pretty good! If anything, I'd say even well-temper it
> more, as those wolf 3/2's are about 752 cents each.

Is that so bad? 17/11 is 753.637 cents.

> What did you use as a basis for porcupine, the POTE generator? What if
> you run it again, but use a generator that's something between POTE
> and 15-EDO? The arithmetic mean of the 160 cent 15-EDO generator and
> the POTE 163.950 generator is 161.975, and so maybe that'd do the
> trick.

I can give it a try.

From: Mike Battaglia (2012-01-13)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Porcupinish stuff

On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 8:29 PM, genewardsmith
<genewardsmith@...> wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> > Whoa, this is pretty good! If anything, I'd say even well-temper it
> > more, as those wolf 3/2's are about 752 cents each.
>
> Is that so bad? 17/11 is 753.637 cents.

It depends on what you want. I'd like for everything to be usable as a
3/2, except some are harsher so you'd use them less. And if you
believe in 17-limit harmony, then 17/13 is 464.428 and about what I'm
shooting for for the worst tempered 4/3's.

> > What did you use as a basis for porcupine, the POTE generator? What if
> > you run it again, but use a generator that's something between POTE
> > and 15-EDO? The arithmetic mean of the 160 cent 15-EDO generator and
> > the POTE 163.950 generator is 161.975, and so maybe that'd do the
> > trick.
>
> I can give it a try.

Thanks for doing this.

-Mike

From: genewardsmith (2012-01-13)
Subject: Re: Porcupinish stuff

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:

> > I can give it a try.
> 
> Thanks for doing this.

Here you go:


! porcufip15.scl
!
Prcupine[15] lesfip scale, 11-limit diamond, 15 cents tolerance
 15
!
 98.67069
 161.69600
 261.16244
 323.51020
 423.96853
 486.50591
 586.06832
 648.60570
 749.06403
 811.41179
 910.87823
 973.90355
 1072.57423
 1136.28712
 1200.00000

From: Mike Battaglia (2012-01-13)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Porcupinish stuff

On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 10:09 PM, genewardsmith
<genewardsmith@...> wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> > > I can give it a try.
> >
> > Thanks for doing this.
>
> Here you go:
>
> ! porcufip15.scl
> !
> Prcupine[15] lesfip scale, 11-limit diamond, 15 cents tolerance
> 15
> !
> 98.67069
> 161.69600
> 261.16244
> 323.51020
> 423.96853
> 486.50591
> 586.06832
> 648.60570
> 749.06403
> 811.41179
> 910.87823
> 973.90355
> 1072.57423
> 1136.28712
> 1200.00000

Wow, that's definitely getting there. Fifths are still a bit harsh though.

Any chance we could see 161 cents?

If you just run this with 160 cents, e.g. 15-EDO, should we expect to
see 15-EDO back out again?

-Mike

From: genewardsmith (2012-01-13)
Subject: Re: Porcupinish stuff

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:

> Any chance we could see 161 cents?

! porcuopt.scl
!
Porcupine[15] lesfip scale, 11-limit diamond, 15 cents tolerance
 15
!
 93.04859
 162.01097
 251.82183
 323.43969
 395.05755
 484.86840
 553.83079
 646.87938
 711.49922
 811.40920
 873.00679
 973.87259
 1035.47018
 1135.38016
 1200.00000



> If you just run this with 160 cents, e.g. 15-EDO, should we expect to see 15-EDO back out again?

If the equilibrium is stable, yes; otherwise round-off errors should produce a result, which would be a possible method for getting a result close to an edo in that case.

From: genewardsmith (2012-01-13)
Subject: Re: Porcupinish stuff

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "genewardsmith" <genewardsmith@...> wrote:

> If the equilibrium is stable, yes; otherwise round-off errors should produce a result, which would be a possible method for getting a result close to an edo in that case.
>

I tried it, and it gave me 15edo back again, meaning it's stable.

From: Mike Battaglia (2012-01-13)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Porcupinish stuff

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 12:42 AM, genewardsmith
<genewardsmith@...> wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> > Any chance we could see 161 cents?
>
> ! porcuopt.scl
> !
> Porcupine[15] lesfip scale, 11-limit diamond, 15 cents tolerance
> 15
> !
> 93.04859
> 162.01097
> 251.82183
> 323.43969
> 395.05755
> 484.86840
> 553.83079
> 646.87938
> 711.49922
> 811.40920
> 873.00679
> 973.87259
> 1035.47018
> 1135.38016
> 1200.00000

This one is great! I wonder what the best mode is? This one's pretty good

! /Applications/Scala.app/Contents/Resources/scala22/Porcupine15Lesfip.scl
!
asdljfkhlaksjdhfkasdgfaoiusdhfkejgflkjadshlfdkjhad
 15
!
 61.59759
 161.50757
 226.12741
 319.17600
 388.13838
 477.94924
 549.56710
 621.18496
 710.99581
 779.95820
 873.00679
 937.62663
 1037.53661
 1099.13420
 1200.00000


-Mike

From: Mike Battaglia (2012-01-14)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Porcupinish stuff

Hey Chris, any chance you could try this one?

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 1:42 AM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> ! /Applications/Scala.app/Contents/Resources/scala22/Porcupine15Lesfip.scl
> !
> asdljfkhlaksjdhfkasdgfaoiusdhfkejgflkjadshlfdkjhad
>  15
> !
>  61.59759
>  161.50757
>  226.12741
>  319.17600
>  388.13838
>  477.94924
>  549.56710
>  621.18496
>  710.99581
>  779.95820
>  873.00679
>  937.62663
>  1037.53661
>  1099.13420
>  1200.00000
>
> -Mike

There are two scales within this that are of interest: the MOS 2 1 2 2
2 2 2 and its modes, and the MOS 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 and its modes. Feel
free to use these or not to use these as much as you want.

I think this one might work really well.

-Mike

From: Chris Vaisvil (2012-01-14)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Porcupinish stuff

Sure, coming up.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> Hey Chris, any chance you could try this one?
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 1:42 AM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > !
> /Applications/Scala.app/Contents/Resources/scala22/Porcupine15Lesfip.scl
> > !
> > asdljfkhlaksjdhfkasdgfaoiusdhfkejgflkjadshlfdkjhad
> >  15
> > !
> >  61.59759
> >  161.50757
> >  226.12741
> >  319.17600
> >  388.13838
> >  477.94924
> >  549.56710
> >  621.18496
> >  710.99581
> >  779.95820
> >  873.00679
> >  937.62663
> >  1037.53661
> >  1099.13420
> >  1200.00000
> >
> > -Mike
>
> There are two scales within this that are of interest: the MOS 2 1 2 2
> 2 2 2 and its modes, and the MOS 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 and its modes. Feel
> free to use these or not to use these as much as you want.
>
> I think this one might work really well.
>
> -Mike
>
>  
>

From: Chris Vaisvil (2012-01-14)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Porcupinish stuff

Here you go. It is a lot of dyads. Its harder for me to keep track of a
scale like this - slightly chromatic triads at the end.

A Child's Symmetry - per request - using the MOS 3 2 2 2 2 2 2  scale of
Porcupine15Lesfip

http://micro.soonlabel.com/15-ET/daily20120113-porcupine15lesfip-a-childs-symmetry.mp3

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@gmail.com>wrote:

> **
>
>
> Hey Chris, any chance you could try this one?
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 1:42 AM, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > !
> /Applications/Scala.app/Contents/Resources/scala22/Porcupine15Lesfip.scl
> > !
> > asdljfkhlaksjdhfkasdgfaoiusdhfkejgflkjadshlfdkjhad
> >  15
> > !
> >  61.59759
> >  161.50757
> >  226.12741
> >  319.17600
> >  388.13838
> >  477.94924
> >  549.56710
> >  621.18496
> >  710.99581
> >  779.95820
> >  873.00679
> >  937.62663
> >  1037.53661
> >  1099.13420
> >  1200.00000
> >
> > -Mike
>
> There are two scales within this that are of interest: the MOS 2 1 2 2
> 2 2 2 and its modes, and the MOS 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 and its modes. Feel
> free to use these or not to use these as much as you want.
>
> I think this one might work really well.
>
> -Mike
>
>  
>

From: Chris Vaisvil (2012-01-14)
Subject: Re: [tuning] Re: Porcupinish stuff

Here is my piece - it is meant to be poly-metric

Iridium Platinum Meter - for harp, alto flute, upright bass, drum kit -
http://micro.soonlabel.com/15-ET/daily20120114-iridium-platinum-meter.mp3

On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 3:36 PM, genewardsmith
<genewardsmith@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
> >
> > got it
>
> That one's just porcupine. This one is more interesting, and might be a
> good one to try:
>
> ! valenporc15.scl
> !
> Valentine-porcupine circulating strictly proper 15-note lesfip scale, 11
> limit diamond target, 13.8 to 15.5 cent tolerance
> ! approximately 555556655555555 in 77edo
> 15
> !
> 79.99698
> 158.13771
> 233.53897
> 314.10167
> 389.50293
> 467.64365
> 547.64064
> 623.18179
> 701.41713
> 780.49908
> 873.82032
> 967.14156
> 1046.22350
> 1124.45885
> 1200.00000
>
>  
>